"Cross that line..." a discussion

I presented my FaceBook friends -- all people I have either met or at least conversed with in some realish-world fashion with the exception of fan pages, by the way -- and some folks via email with the question of the day:

"How far does a man allow a woman to take it before physically defending himself?"

I then settled in for the last 40 minutes of my work day and waited for the responses to roll in, just to see what folks had to say in response.
Keep in mind, the responses you will find here do not represent those of the staff (me) here at "The Musings of a Madman..." but of the individuals quoted as having said them. Any individual named and quoted will be such with a link to their own blog if you would like the chance to read them and hug it out with them.
Or argue the merits of their response...


As usual, my opinion and response will be last.

First response, as is custom with the question of the day, was former coworker, Dominik (female, happily married), with:
"I'm like this..if a female starts throwing bo's first and the man asks her to stop and she continues..he needs to walk away..if she follows and still continues to pass licks..then she deserves to get what she's giving..sorry but I'm only being real. I'm not an advocate of domestic violence but men deserve the right to defend themselves just like women. "

After her was the homie Ryan, with:
"One must try to escape before going in. Also man goes in immediately if weapons are drawn."

Next came Joe, with:
"Whatever happened to equal rights for men and women? If I hit a girl I get a beating, so if she hits me it should be the same. Lol kidding. If she has a weapon, its on like donkey kong, but if she throws just a punch or whatever, she gets ONE warning. After that, she's being foolish. I do not support or advocate domestic violence, but there's a difference between that and self defense."

After that was an email response from Galen (start a blog, fucker!), with notes and examples from a class discussion on this very topic just this morning:

"Aw man, we discussed that very topic this morning at school. Now our conclusion was the first time she decides to get physical, that's it. One and done!!! But unfortunately, that's not the case. Primary example: Juanita Bynum and her husband. They got into a public argument and HE tried to walk the hell away from her. But being the typical woman that she was, decided to continue to press the issue and poke and prod him in the back until he just had enough and two-pieced her. Now I'm not saying that it's right, but women just don't know when to let an argument go.

Women listen well: If a dude is WALKING AWAY from you, that usually means that it's getting to a point where he is about to get physical. LET HIM WALK AWAY TO COOL OFF!!!!"

Next was The Katie, with:
"I agree with all the comments thus far. However I believe unless he is deserving of it, there is no reason a woman should be putting her hands on a man in a violent manner. I agree with the one warning and all bets are off. Men do have a right to defend themselves especially when weapons are drawn."

Then came the homie Wil, with:
"I will quote from an expert on domestic violence: Ike Turner: 'Now look what you done did, you done went and ruined my fine automobile, imma get you, you know imma get you right?'"

Then came Stone, with:
"I look at like this regardless the man is wrong. The woman will NEVER remember what SHE did Never EVER. So no matter what she does BOUNCE and leave. You will be labeled a Ike turner woman beater and she's a victim hero survivor. That's it"

Then Derek Jeter Brandon, with:
"The rare times a female has raised my anger levels to the point i felt like hitting something I've found a wall or door coupled with a stern look in her direction to say 'i was pictureing you when I hit that' hasbeen enough for her to back off and let me regain appropriate levelsof emotion."

Next, was Tony Grands in an email response, with:
"A grown man shouldn't hit anyone, that's for children, unless it's a matter of protection. Years ago, I'd say once she hits him is the "green light", but now, I'd say he shouldn't hit a woman at all. If she's that worked up, & the man doesn't deserve to be taken to that extreme (cheating, stealing from her, smoking crack, etc.) there's a deeper issue that needs resolution. If she's willing to put herself in harm's way, & risk the likelihood of getting beat up, it's deeper than the momentary disagreement. Corny as it sounds, if he truly cares, at that point, his feeling(s) should be put aside to take full assessment of the situation. Women aren't as emotional as men, in the sense that they lose self-control for nothing at all. If the argument can't be quelled in a civilized way, he should leave altogether, & return intent on finding out what's really going on. Plus, that shit's illegal. Eff the police."

Then was my moms with:
"Well being a woman and your mother it should never get to that point, you should be able to defend yourself from the jump."

My brother is next with:
"well if she curse like a man, and swing like a man, then she must wanna fight like one... like one of your other folks said. equal rights for men and women...lol , but on the real, ya get 3 strikes... 2 warnings then an open hand slap to the mouth......lmao..."
Then follows himself with:
"by the way people, dont do the woman beating thing, but im not gonna sit there and take it...."
Moms then reversed field, with:
"And I support that. I always taught you not to throw the first lick. But you should be able to defend yourself. I am not a believer of a man hitting a woman, but I understand!"

My best friend Roger stepped in within time for me to edit his response in with:
"I am SUPER LATE to the party, but i hope my input saves a mans life. U know, help somebody and whatnot. The built in respect our society has for women, post women's lib, makes for our current world situation: female HABITUAL line-steppers. Pushing buttons,name calling,hitting, kicking, vandalism, etc. With the invisible forcefield of respect protecting them from asswhuppings. Now, first off, u shouldnt hit her b/c if u in that type of situation, U got too close to a coon-ette, easy mistake. Secondly, why surrender your gentleman status when u can simply MASE THE SHYT OUT OF HER......"

Another late entrant was Mr. Murph, with:
"Honestly, most women can be simply subdued, but some women need to smooth be knocked on their ass. My belief is if you wanna play in a man's world, then you should be treated accordingly. You swing on me, I'mma knock your ass the fuck out. Cut and dry. It's not the most diplomatic way to handle shit, but sometimes you have to set a example. You can sit back and be a battered man if you want to, but I refuse. Women be taking kickboxing classes and Karate and shit The tables have turned. It ain't the same as it was in the 40's.

For the record, I wouldn't EVER hit a woman first. I just don't think it's right that society thinks we should just sit back and be a punching bag.

And you just look stupid when you have to call the cops cause your woman been kicking your ass up and down main street. If she calls the cops on you YOU'RE going to jail and she's sitting on the couch eating bon-bons and shit. calling her girls up and talking about how she whipped your ass and THEN sent you to jail. "


All above responses were ONLY edited for correctness of quotation mark usage. Spelling, grammatical and any other punctuation use was not touched by me.

And I will end this with my take on the situation...

I live with the full understanding that there is no real reason for anyone to be going in on ANYONE physically, male/male, female/female or male/female and vice versa.
However
We're humans and shit happens...
Yes, as men, we're better equipped to handle these things, generally speaking when compared to women, I recognize this as well.
I do, however, make a point of living my life by the "don't start none, won't be none" mantra. The number one way to avoid someone putting a shoe on you (word to Byron Crawford, lol) is to not give them a reason to put a shoe on you.
That being said, to answer my question directly; a man should allow it to be taken to the point where he has...
  1. Tried to pressure the situation down verbally (without yelling)
  2. Tried to physically remove himself from the onslaught
    and...
  3. Been followed and continually accosted in an aggressive manner from the onslaught.
At this point, he has served to all necessary grown man obligations and is well within his right, legal and morally, to defend himself in a very necessary manner. This is the same manner that would be employed against ANY able-bodied adult of any gender, while the above rules are out the window when the playing field is even. I say that to say that the first time a dude (or a Lumberjack Lesbian) puts his hands on me, it is about. to. go. the. fuck. DOWN!
No, I am not a supporter of domestic violence, not in the least. I can not, however, think of it as the same playing field when the person who finds themselves domestically violenced made their own bed, metaphorically speaking. You can thank THESE individuals, who come in larger numbers, for killing off the victim/survivor aesthetic. It is no different from the situation that now has Mitch "Blood" Green reduced to nothing more than a bigass joke.
There is, of course, a line that is crossed, and again that line has no mind on the gender of the ass-kickee... Backhand someone and you were simply defending yourself. Backhand and keep swinging, you have a simple assault. Backhand, keep swinging and majorly kick ass and then you have aggravated assault. Go beyond that, up to and including the causing of considerable bloodshed and some physical bruising/scarring, and THEN keep going and you can be congratulated with what can be attempted murder if you got the wrong DA and/or your skin is dark enough.
The line that I did not present with the question but was drawn in more than once was the weapon... If there is an instrument of any kind involved and I am not holding -- fuck, even if I am -- then I will happy apply El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz' "any means necessary," even if one or both of us meets our maker on this night.
That much being said, I know how and generally live to avoid physical conflict, lord knows I do. What I also know, though, is how and precisely when I am in the right -- legally and within the conscience I had surgically removed years ago -- to hand someone their ass, be they male, female or both.
That being said, there have never been any fistfights -- or even the most minor of arguments -- in my house, let alone any situation that would see the use of the backhand my considerable physical strength would make me more than capable of.
If all goes according to plans, it will never be taken there. If your OWN house does or ever might make it there, perhaps you need to think on what in the hell your relationship is about.
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